A couple from the US state of Georgia was recently arrested for tattooing six of their seven children with crosses. The mother bemusedly commented:
I m their mother. Shouldn t I be capable to determine if they get one?
No madam you shouldnt. Children are not possessions; parents do not own them. They are human beings with inalienable human rights. To permanently and unnecessarily scar a child without their express and informed consent (and when they are not old enough to comprehend the consequences) is a violation of those rights.
Another case in 2008 involved devout Christian John Freshwater a science teacher with creationist beliefs who used an electrical device to trademark crosses on some of his pupils and he was was rightly sacked for this outrage
Tattooing (or branding) children is of course a rare occurrence. Far more prevalent is a form of child mutilation that barely raises an eyebrow: circumcision.
Circumcision: a barbaric hangover from the Bronze Age
Anyone with a sensitive cell in his or her body instinctively abhors the idea of female genital mutilation yet male circumcision is seen love perfectly acceptable.
It is not. Circumcision is unnecessary irreversible and intensely painful. Yet it is often justified on aesthetic or religious grounds or it may simply be a fashion followed unquestioningly by parents illiterate of the fact that the training is not only unethical except is tantamount to guilty assault if not carried out for genuine medical reasons.
It is simply an ancient and barbaric ritual with no place in any modern society.
Circumcision happens thus (the squeamish should skip this paragraph): First the infant s armament and legs are strapped down to prevent movement. The child s genitals are then dabbed with an anaesthetic and lubricating solution. A pair of what can only be described as scissors are then used to cut down the length of the foreskin. A me
And that s when it is done properly under modern hygienic conditions. Now beg yourselves how many millions more circumcisions are carried around the world in a grossly unhygienic manner?
Consider that circumcision has taken place for thousands of years and we must admit millions of infants circumcised throughout history cut with knives sharp stones razor blades or other instruments without pain relief.
Jewish law has a proviso that allows parents who have had three boys die from circumcision to leave the fourth unmutilated (what charity!)
More sinister serene Jewish circumcision has a more traditional form during which the mohel will suck the blood from the cut penis with his mouth. This practice went relatively unpublicised until child boys in New York City became infected with herpes thanks to a practitioner who had the condition.
If my desc
HOWEVER if a consenting grown-up male wishes to have his foreskin removed (or any other part of his body mutilated) then so long as he does not endanger his own life he is welcome to do so. It is consent that is paramount.
You may have heard that there are medical advantages for circumcision and it is correct that the American Academy of Pediatrics notes a 1 percent drop in urinary tract infections between circumcised boys. Women however are 30 times more likely to get UTIs than men yet no-one in their right mind would suggest the cutting of the labia and clitoral hood in order to improve hygiene and reduce the risk of infection.
Shamefully the World Health Organisation recommends circumcisions in areas badly affected by HIV instead of recommending educating the public regarding the use of contraceptives. The idiocy is profound: mutilate a man s penis instead of leaving it intact and educating him. Cut him instead of teaching him. I have no distrust that the widespread influence of the Catholic Church in AIDS-hit countries has affected the WHO s decisions about the dodgy fixes they endorse regarding the HIV. We well understand the Vatican teaches that condoms don t prevent HIV (for the Holy See AIDS might be bad but condoms are worse.)
And Judaism certainly has a lot to answer for too having provided the blueprint for this revolting practice. Without genuinely believing that God wants infants to be mutilated there would be no religious justification to continue doing it. Those who trust in a Divine Creator who wants children mutilated should admit that such a deity must be extraordinarily racist and cruel. He is a semite-supremacist since he favours the tribe and descendents of Israel over all other humans. And he is exceptionally ruthless because though God supposedly knows all there is to know he could think of no better way to make a covenant with humans than through ritual mutilation.
Furthermore they must conclude that morality is defined by the wishes of God. That is something is good because God says it is. And if that is the case the deed of murdering one s parents and the act of stealing a pencil are wrong for the same reason. That this God-defined morality would justify circumcision just goes to show that the oft-quoted If God is dead anything is permitted is downright wrong: God need only command you to do something and it would be a moral action be it killing your child as a sacrifice murdering homosexuals or mutilating your children s genitals.
One of the greatest Torah scholars of all time Maimonides wrote:
The bodily pain caused to that member is the real purpose of circumcision.
Telling indeed. It also seems that Maimonides was right when he said:
The fact that circumcision weakens the gift of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable.
The foreskin is the male translation of the clitoral hood (during embryonic growth the hood becomes the foreskin) and as such is packed with pleasure-sensitive areas. According to a study of sexual pleasure in adult males it was concluded that the most sensitive areas of the penis are on the foreskin (Sorrells et al). Severing it irreversibly limits sexual pleasure.
This is precisely what Maimonides had in mind but whilst he viewed it as a justification of circumcision (sexual lust being an excessive indulgence and all) nowadays we may throw off such Bronze Age notions.
While 30 percent of all men are circumcised worldwide only 0.8 percent of those are Jewish. The majority 68.8 percent are Muslim. Justifications for the practice are predominantly cultural and sc
These religious notions of divine covenant and sexual purity were born in the fearful infancy of our species and we should now free ourselves from such primitive nonsense.
Finally be wary of any modern justification of circumcision. The American Academy of Pediatrics stated unequivocally in 2005 that:
There is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn.
It is thus unconscionable to inflict genital cutting on children male or female. That male circumcision does not provoke the same instinctive dislike as female genital cutting is a profound indicator of the power of tradition and convention.
The vile influence of religious dogma is like a magnet to the moral compass. The old adage holds true: Good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things. But for a good person to do a bad thing that takes religion.
In this case good people are mutilating their children s genitals utterly unaware that without religion this barbaric and grotesque practice would never have existed at all.
Update:
My attention has just been drawn by Intact America to the fact that in the wake of the three recent studies in southern Africa li
Could culminate in a unilateral endorsement of circumcision by the American medical machine.
Anyone wishing to push against the tide of unnecessary infant circumcisions can sign a petition on the Intact America site which will be delivered to the CDC later this month. Please do.
There are non-religious reasons for having a circumcision. I had an uncle that was forced to have a circumcision in his late 30s due to a medical condition. Here is a list of reason for having a circumcision as stated by the Mayo Clinic
* Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it easy to wash the penis although its simple to clean an uncircumcised penis too.
* Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in the first year is low but these infections may be up to 10 times as common in uncircumcised baby boys. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later on.
* Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis may be hard or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can also lead to inflammation of the head of the penis.
* Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare its less common in circumcised men.
* Decreased risk of sexually transmitted diseases. Safe sexual practices remain essential but circumcised men may have a slightly lower risk of certain sexually transmitted diseases including HIV the virus that causes AIDS.
In the absence of a medical necessity parents who authorize their children to be circumcised should be charged with assault.
Its sufficiently outrageous that children should be subjected to the mental sculpting of their parents religious prejudices without enhancing such brainwashing with physical butchery.
Informed consent is something children are incapable of.
While I comply that its a tradition handed down by a barbaric and outdated superstition to assert that there are no significant health benefits associated with circumcision is to ignore recent studies on the subject. Science ba
Again I agree that its a traditionally barbaric procedure and the shortage of consent from the child makes it even more questionable&but it does appear that there are benefits to having it done. I wouldnt write circumcision off as easily as this article does.
A good if very squirm-making post. I suspect youve set some kind of Freethinker record for number of readers legs crossed.
Circumcision is a good sample of how you need religion to make otherwise good people do bad things especially to kids. Its also an example of how religious tradition has to be founded on irrational and sometimes harmful customs; if it was just commonsense dont throw your rubbish down the well you idiots opinion it couldnt be a commandment from God could it?
A few or so yrs ago a mate o mine was living in a shared house. One night b4 we went out his somali home mate asked to borrow a porn video. Me mate said ok and the somali said great sick just go get my hand lotion . I asked him why he would need lotion to watch porn then the penny dropped. I asked if he was cut and he said yes. I replied jesus! I would NEVER LET ANYONE CUT OFF MY FORESKIN!. It cost me a broken nose 3 broken ribs and a sound kicking to study that koranimals chop off 4skin!
Ha ha lotion! The American porn industry needs so much lotion! The foreskin is there for many simple and practical reasons
During intercourse it retains lubricant.
As a protective supplementary la
If you are nervous you can pinch it for reassurance.
And for amusement you can nip the end shut and make a wee balloon with it.
Have it removed and a entire world of opportunity is lost.
Oh I almost forget you can guarantee anyone defending it has had it done and doesnt know what theyre missing LOL!
Medical reasons are rare religion/ ignorance / cultural are the main reasons by FAR!
THANK YOU.
Im so sick and tired of people being opposed to any and all form of female circumcision or what female genital mutilation but are sharping up the knives when theres a foreskin nearby.
The problem with many of the studies that show how evil and disease laden a foreskin is is that most of the studies focus on NON-INDUSTRALIZED COUNTRIES. Id gamble overall health was worse as well but hey lets ignore that part of things.
And the whole Well it COULD cause a problem argument is bullshit. So could every other body part but I dont see anyone advocating lopping off anything else.
The easier to clean argument is bull as well because if we just gave all babies a port so they could poop in a handbag that would be cleaner as well.
Sure lets just remove all tonsils from babies because they COULD be a problem. Lets remove all spleens appendixes earlobes etc because there COULD be a problem with them and truly if you never had one you wouldnt know the difference.
(BTW.. Im uncut and my wife wouldnt have it any other way nor would I)
@Randy
There are numerous references online regarding the myths that surround male circumcision. Heres an example: The foreskin causes cancer myth with copious cross references. Theres more here. The myths are not as bad as menstruation is caused by the curse of Eve but close.
If this post has set some kind of Freethinker record for number of readers legs crossed (@valdemar) conceive the reaction to the horrors of female genital mutilation!
What is this fascination people have to circumcise boys? I dont understand why people want to remove a part of the male sex organ from babies. Anyone who really examines the studies will realize that any benefit to circumcision is either very small and insignificant or non-existent.
I really wish my parents had not decided to have a part of my sex organ removed. I would have preferred to keep all my bits. After all I am the one who has to live with it and use it.
I was circumcised at birth and have since restored my foreskin. So I know what it is like to be both cut and have a foreskin. Having a foreskin even a restored one is much better.
At discussion forums I frequent circumcision discussions trigger more bile than almost anything else apart from abortion and gun control. There are lots of Americans on those boards.
It is remarkable how those who have been circumcised even the most secular and generally reasonable people seem to receive the idea that it has damaged their capacity for sexual pleasure as a personal insult.
But it MUST be bad for sexual pleasure all those nerve endings either gone or keratinised.
I think it an abomination.
In the United States male circumcision is far more common than in Europe where among the non-Jewish / Muslim / lunatic community it is never performed except in cases like phimosis.
Now hospitals in the U.S. charge $300 a snip to the families or to the medical insurance companies. Nice little earner. No wonder they are so keen on promoting its benefits.
And as shargraves said the ones defending it are almost often the ones with their very own yid lid.
Im cringing even more as I had to have the chop at the age of 41 a few months ago.
I miss my foreskin&and I agree doing it to a child without its consent for any other reason that medical necessity is abhorrent and child abuse.
While I agree the practice of male circumcision for no medical reason should definitely be considered child abuse and my husband and I have no plans to do it to any sons we might have I have to ob
Just to clarify this is not a defense of male circumcision I just dont think the two cases (male and female) are comparable point for point.
Chem&
Depends on what were talking about. Not all types of FGM which is used interchangeably with Female Circumcision involves the removal of the clitoris or the actual mutilation of the genitals. I dont think anyone would equate the damage done to a clitoral removal to the removal of the foreskin. But the amount of consent(none) the root reasons(cultural or religious) and intent (deaden sexual feelings) are the same.
I have worked in Urology now for 2 years. I often see older men with foreskin problems that circumcised patients dont have paraphimosis phimosis (with urinary retention) and infections. As I get older I am glad I was circumcised.
I also circumcised my son and he has no memory and is glad I did it. I also cut his umbilical cord. More painful memories for my son are when I sewed his scalp closed and dug painful splinters out of his foot.
I thinking opting to do circumcision when older is good but it takes more out of your life to do it then.
I know this comment will be unpopular on this site but freethinkers should also be comfortable free speaking.
Those who represent how terribly painful circumcision is on a new born probably have not real medical experience. IMHO
Sabio
NoNoNo
You took a decision on behalf of another. A minor.
Not someone indoctrinated into a vein of poison.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Re Sabio Lantzs post above I can tell him that as an older man I sometimes have arthritic problems in my left foot that people who have had the left foot amputated would not have.
However I remain glad that my foot was not amputated as a child even if had been done before I was of an age to remember it.
Lopping off functional parts of a body remains a very bad idea.
I job as an NICU RN the current philosphy is not to circumsise unless requested and many Drs do not do it. It is seen as cosmetic and not medically requisite and almost all insurances wont pay for it that being said many mothers still ask for it. Its not generally done in Europe and many other nations but here in America it is still a common practice. A throw back to the Puritans where touching onself is considered dirty.
While I do agree to a certain extent that it is cruel to do it to an infant. I have seen both my father and a friend have to be cut when they were 50 to 60. Watching the pain that they went through before and after made the decision easy for me. They both told me that they wish they had been cut when they were babies. I had my son cut when he was born better now than having to go through all that pain at a later date. Of course the decision was made from what I have seen in my life.
From the original post:
Children are not possessions; parents do not own them. They are human beings with inalienable human rights.
Thank you for that Peter. I had to make that point on a comparable thread on another blog a while ago and I said something like this:
Every human being even one just born is a sovereign individual with certain inalienable rights. As children get older they gradually obtain more rights (driving voting drinking body piercing without parental consent) until they have the full rights of an adult but there is never a time when they have no rights and ten times never a time when they are anybodys property.
***
Tony E to Sabio:
You took a decision on behalf of another. A minor.
Not someone indoctrinated into a vein of poison.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Only partly wrong I think at least in the general sense of making a decision on behalf of another.
Part of a parents responsibility is to do just that for their children to navigate the dilemma that there are times when one must make a decision for ones child that is both (a) the right thing to do and (b) an undeniable infringement of their inalienable rights. For their future health we have them vaccinated without their consent. For their safety we limit their freedoms often against their very vocal dissent. In those cases were riding roughshod over their sovereignty but we do it because its part of our duty.
As parents we (one hopes) do these things for good sound reasons but we should never forget that we are in fact choosing the lesser of two evils. Yes its for the childs own good but yes its also infringing on their rights. The flip side to that is that a parent should never infringe on a childs rights except where there is a compelling reason to do so and circumcision does not appear to qualify as compelling in any way.
UN HIV Circumcision Study: A Fraud? The Atheist Experience #603
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AfPajxmfbE
Dont listen to these pro-male circumcision studies : they are complete and utter bullsh!t. Every 20 years or so they come out with a new set of studies; these are debunked and then a new set of studies is rolled out to replace the old studies and the cycle is repeated.
If there really was a compelling medical case for circumcision one study would be enough. The constant recycling of these studies over the past century is indicative of a false motive and a need to propagandize the public for an unnecessary medical procedure.
These studies always make the fallacious correlation equals causation argument and frequently cooks the books to boot by carefully pre-selecting their case studies. If there was a real medical case to be made these dishonest methods would not be necessary.
Then also we see the usual anecdotal arguments upthread the oh I knew someone who had to have it cut off as an adult blah blah blah . Great one person in a thousand or in a hundred thousand or one in a million what about all of the billions of men who werent circumcised and who never had any medical problems with their foreskin as an adult?
You think they all should have been cut as children without their consent JUST IN CASE they might have ended up as the 0.01% or 0.00001% of adult males who had a problem with their foreskin as an adult? Are you people insane?
CIrcumcision of non-consenting normal healthy people is not tantamount to criminal assault . It IS criminal assault. It is the same crime against humanity that the court at Nuremberg sent properly licensed German physicians to prison shortly after World War II for committing during the war against Jews Gypsies homosexuals and others. Jail the mutilators. All of them. If they cant stop themselves from cutting up other peoples sex organs put them in the same cells with Nazi doctors and let them cut EACH OTHER up.
First Love
You must have been insane
you bloody madman
to steal my brand-new body
from my clueless mother s bed
and lay me on your cold hard table
whole.
You must have been insane
to rope my baby body down
and rip my virgin foreskin off
to rape my battered butchered glans
me screaming bloody murder
at your sickness-driven hands.
You must have been insane
to rub my little penis with your bloody Betadine
then come at my erection
with your knife
to try and make me sick as you
for life!
You must have been insane
to cut my bodys best
to chop my ridged band sex nerves off
and throw them in the trash
and leave me here to die but part a man:
To murder my bodys deepest love was that your diabolic plan?
Rape?! RAPE??!!! RAPE?!! It s not just rape!!
I d far prefer rape! Its torture! Mayhem! MUTILATION!
There IS no word for what you did to me!
Inflict on me the ancient curse of Muslim and of Jew?
And what entreat Hell think you I d do
to you?
God damn your putrid madness you dead man!
God send down my mad vomit straight to Hell!
May devil Satan make a feast upon it
and sicken from our bloody rotten gore
and die in holy Hell
forevermore!
Some lovers we you mad M.D.
bound for all eternity!
You bloody butcher madman! Penis parasite!
Still lost upon your lone way?
Pathogenic whore! Some trick!
Still cutting boy fillet?
Atavistic cannibal eats dick!
Still sucking child parfait?
Psychopathic fraud! Still sick?
You re still insane
today?
Circumcision is a barbaric tradition with deep roots in religious dogmas like infant babtism. How can an infant know which god to believe or not to believe in? They dont even know when to shit themselfes or not. These cult addicts think they are doing their gods will when they inflict that pain upon infants. Another proof that religion is poison to the human mind. We dont need that crap anymore we never needed it in the first place anyway. Thanks to religion our scientific progress was halted in the dark ages when these idiots went around burning witches and heretics. Only thing stopping the religious sheeps from killing us all(we will all burn in hell anyway so whats the rush?) is that association wont let them to but go to any primitive village or whatnot and see what the old farts running the place do to the people all in the name of religion. Bah&
Im pretty glad I was circumcised when I was little. I like how my penis looks and seriously doubt that girls would want to perform oral sex on me or find my penis attractive had it been uncircumcised. Call me a fundy bastard but 3 seconds of immense pain when I was a baby that I cant even remember vs. not ever getting oral sex& ever& I think Id prefer the scissors and im glad I and my son are circumcised.
Anyone that for any reason defends this barbaric practice is just as criminal as those doing it.
BTW Jon you idiot I was not circumcised an I have had oral sex performed upon my many times by every woman with whom I have been intimate. But then I was taught hygiene as a child; too bad you were not and instead were taught sick deviant beliefs.
its sad. obviously its not necessary to snip the bit. we are born perfect we are born pure. the faiths which practice circumcision are satanic. satan has you when you agree to mutilate your child and satan enjoys making creation ugly. i will fight to prevent the cutting of any child brought into this world because of me.
a warrior does not take orders
a warrior is not a marine
a warrior diffuses war brought to them
a warrior protects life
I was circumcised as a baby and I pretty sure I got over it shortly after the procedure and never think about it unless the subject comes up. My mom wasnt even religious. She just did it for aesthetic purposes. Many women have told be they prefer a circumcised penis but Im sure there are women that prefer uncircumcised as well. I think I briefly watched a snippet of Sex and the City or one of those girly shows where all of those girls preferred circumcised men as well. So I really dont have any complaints. I will never know the pleasure of having the foreskin but as the old saying goes Ignorance is bliss .
As I may not be an expert in the penis i do have a circumcised penis and I can not say that i am in any way scared or ashamed of this. Unlike getting branded with a cross circumcision has many social and health benefits. Just as many as getting preventative vaccinations as a child (which also causes pain and discomfort). I believe whoever takes this as a case of assault is an individual who is just looking for a fight and has been called anteater his whole life. If we went around saying all the painful things we did to children was assault we would never have any medical practices with children. Just hope they make it to the age of 18 so they can consent to everything they want. I dont consent to spiritual mutilation of a child but in some cultures that is accepted depending on the beliefs.
In summary this is another fight that wont be won because you can never deny an individual of their traditions just because you do not agree.
Ive been with guys who have been circumcised and uncircumcised&there are differences between the two&although mostly negligible if you consider it.
1. Ive never noticed any diminished capacity for pleasure from circumcised men. Of course these men were circumcised from birth&so I guess the old adage that you cant miss what you never had applies there.
2. I find circumcised to be more aesthetically pleasing. I dont know why&I just do as do many women. Of course that doesnt apply to everyone however; Id be willing to say that the majority of women do. I can say that I was never repelled by any of my uncircumcised partners in fact; hand jobs were much easier on them.
3. If I had one real complaint against uncircumcised men it would be condoms and how damn long it takes to put one on. Trying to keep the foreskin up while rolling the condom down&sigh&its a two way war practically. With circumcised men its easy to put a condom on. With my uncircumcised partners I had to wait&usually about 10 minutes for them to put on a condom. So I guess my advice would be for uncircumcised men to practice (a lot) with putting them on.
If I ever have a son I dont plan on circumcising him. Its his penis I say that he gets to decide what to do with it.
I personally feel circumcision is necessary. It has been scientifically proven that it can prevent a lot of infection around those areas. Mothers womb is place for growth which is unmonitored. And there are some ablations that need to be done like embryonic cord.
In this case we do it because we can perceive it as necessary. Excess skin on the penal area is equally necessary but people tend to ignore it.
But from a health perspective this is mandatory. People act only under duress so a federal ordinance here is welcomed.
So I just read the article and all the comments and Ive gotta say I didnt know any of this and its nice to have my eyes opened. I am no expert on penises being a female nor am I the go-to gal for religion being an atheist but I always just assumed it was for health reasons that parents did this. Actually Im sure that that is the reason most do it. So all the animosity here while I understand that it is quite obviously a personal issue with men I think shouldnt be placed squarely on the parents. We need some sort of widespread education about this because parents really think they need to have it done for the sake of their sons health. After reading this and the li
It is remarkable how those who have been circumcised even the most secular and generally reasonable people seem to take the idea that it has damaged their capacity for sexual pleasure as a personal insult.
How would that NOT upset a circumcised man to hear that he cant enjoy the same pleasure that an uncircumcised man could? Thats like telling a person with no legs how great it is to walk and how much theyre missing. Its not like they chose to have it done to them and having it thrown in their face that they cant have the same sexual enjoyment that they should have surely WOULD feel like an insult Id think. At the very least it must be painful to hear.
Rape?! RAPE??!!! RAPE?!! It s not just rape!!
I d far prefer rape! It s torture! Mayhem! MUTILATION!
Okay so this might just be some silly poetry but this is HIGHLY insulting. Comparing a medical procedure that parents have done on their children for [terribly misguided] health reasons is not the same as raping someone. I have met many men who were circumcised. I have met many women who were raped. But Ive never met a man who was fearful to be touched by people to go outside by himself to be alone with strange people- in fear that they would circumcise him. Ive never EVER met a man who had nightmares about his circumcision or who could burst into tears at the thought of his circumcision. Ive never met a man who refused to have any sort of sexual contact because he was afraid that anyone he was with&would circumcise him.
Rape is entirely different. I agree circumcision is an idiotic and terrible thing to do to a child. But there is no conceivable way that you can act like those two things are one in the same. They are not. If you believe so you have clearly. Never been raped.
If so do you think it s contradicting to think that it s okay to make the selection if your child lives but not your choice on what to do with his genitalia?
No. Beliefs about abortion have nothing to do with anything once the child is born.
Anonymiss He doesnt compare rape to genital mutilation to minimize rape. He does it to show how they are both unforgivable acts of destruction and hate.
Genital Mutilation on your own child is more subconscious hate. If the father pushes it because he himself was mutilated he wishes to deny his child the possibility of realizing that the foreskin is amazing.
The mother who wishes to mutilate her child for aesthetic purposes is to impose her disgusting sadistic sexual preference on her own child is clearly some sort of freak with no conscience whatsoever.
Rape is psychologically destructive. Genital Mutilation is Physically destructive. A personal opinion that rape is worse than genital mutilation isnt really disprovable. Niether is vice versa.
I know a man who was mutilated as an infant and raped as a child He says he despises the doctor who mutilated him more than the person who raped him because at least with rape he doesnt have a constant physical reminder of what has happened to him.
The fact that people have to compare Genital Mutilation to rape to try and get people to understand how terrible it is should be shameful to us. And yet we still dont get it. (At least us Americans dont)
it is a gross violation of the childs free will.
by committing the act the perpetrator and those that condone it are also committing blasphemy (by their own standards) as they are defacing/vandalising gods creation.
&but then i dont have to interpre what hypocrites they are on here do i?
it is motivated by only negative emotions: fear control sadism etc
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